February 26, 2020
Listener: I still believe that forgiveness is found IN Christ...the source is where forgiveness is found WITHIN. Otherwise the word would have been written "from" and not "in"...it would have been written from whom if that is what is meant.
TTR: I don’t want to get too far into semantics here. But I also don’t want us to be talking past each other.
It looks as if you may be assigning the phrase “in Christ” to mean something that it doesn’t mean at times.
For example the first verse you listed below is providing the source of redemption. “In Christ” is where redemption is found. This isn’t talking about WHO is in Christ, but WHAT is in Christ.
Romans 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
The second verse you listed speaks of the “love of God” being demonstrated “in Christ.” God’s love was demonstrated through Christ’s finished crosswork paying for the sins of the world. Again, this is not talking about the position of the believer IN Christ, but rather, what God accomplished IN Christ.
Romans 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
The third verse you listed is concerning members of the BODY of Christ. This is the only one, of all three, that directly speaks of saved members of the Body of Christ – INDIVIDUALS being IN Christ.
Romans 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
We have to keep everything in it’s proper context. Just because we see “IN Christ” "IN Whom" or “IN Him” in a verse, it doesn’t automatically mean “people who are in the body of Christ.”
It would be presumptuous to assume that every time you see the phrase “in Christ” – it is speaking of the Body of Christ.
The Body of Christ is people – individuals who are saved through Paul’s gospel.
The Body is IN Christ. – However, there are also other individuals who were said to be “IN Christ” that were not in the BODY of Christ.
Romans 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.
Paul was the first member of the BODY of Christ.
1 Timothy 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
Note: "in me first"
So, Paul was the first in the BODY of Christ – yet there were others who were IN Christ before him. Therefore, we must conclude that being IN Christ and being IN the BODY of Christ are not the same thing.
Andronicus and Junia – who were Paul’s kinsmen (Jews) were *in Christ* according to the gospel of the Kingdom, which was preached by Peter and the other 11 Kingdom Apostles. But, they were not in the BODY of Christ – because Paul was first in the Body.
See the difference?
Here’s another example of why you can’t read every “in Christ” or “in Him” you see in scripture as being about US being IN Christ:
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
We do not claim the title of being “all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.” That’s a title that only belongs to Jesus. The full deity of God, in human form. Perfect in the flesh. Our flesh isn’t perfect, nor are we deity – so that could never be us.
However – the “fulness of the Godhead bodily” dwells IN the person of Christ. Source. Location. -Not individuals who are “in Christ.”
Listener: To reconcile is an incomplete act of love.
TTR: Did you mean to say “complete” here?
Listener: Our lack of imputed righteousness is because our PRIDE separates the world from receiving the IMPUTED righteousness of a righteous man. This truth tells us that we are not and cannot be righteous without humbling ourselves. The truth SHATTERS our egos if we are willing to hear it. So, I agree that sin is not what stands between us and God...it's WORSE...it's PRIDE.
TTR: While I agree that pride is a huge problem, and could very well be THE MAIN problem (in the case of most) - Pride is a sin, just like the rest of the sins. Pride was paid for and forgiven just like every other sin. However, it is the EFFECT of pride that keeps one from believing the gospel unto salvation. Just like it is the EFFECT of unbelief (which is also a sin that was paid for) which prevents the lost from being saved.
Unbelief is paid for and forgiven.
Pride is paid for and forgiven.
Both of these sins are forgiven, because not even one sin was left out when they were placed on Christ at the cross (before you and I were ever born or even thought of.)
The problem isn’t that sins still need to be forgiven – the problem is that the lost do not have their position IN the Body of Christ. When a person is saved, righteousness is imputed to their account. Before they are saved, their account is empty. When they are saved, they are placed into the Body of Christ, and they then receive the RICHES of His Grace because they have received HIS life. (imputed righteousness, justification, sanctification = salvation)
Listener: I believe that your point is that preachers and teachers today are focused on SIN when the focus should be on Christ and him crucified for our sins.
TTR: Yes. We are in agreement on this.
Listener: I ENJOY your videos... I am a new subscriber.
TTR: Thank you for subscribing, and I am glad that you are enjoying the videos.
Listener: The only reason I replied is that I literally became dizzy.
TTR: Feel free to ask questions. None of us are beyond learning, and we should all remain teachable – and I include myself in those statements. My hope is that TTR will help others to THINK, learn the scriptures for themselves (outside of the confines of denominationalism) – but most importantly, preach Jesus Christ and Him crucified in such a way that people will HEAR and BELIEVE the gospel unto salvation. (Romans 1:16, Ephesians 1:13)
Listener: You said, "Today, forgiveness is not being offered. -Salvation is. And eternal salvation is found in the life of Christ. (1 Corinthians 15:1-4)"
I believe that they are one and the same...you can't have one without the other.
TTR: But you CAN have one without the other. God didn’t need our permission to forgive us. He didn’t have to wait on us to ask or believe for it in order for Him to “grant” it. The words “forgiveness” and “salvation” are not the same at all. You cannot have salvation without forgiveness, but you can have forgiveness without salvation. The words are connected, but they are not the same.
The nation Israel has been forgiven time and time again. However, Israel is *not yet* saved. Their salvation is a promised, prophesied, guaranteed FUTURE event, that has yet to take place.
1 Peter 1:9-11 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
1 Pet. 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ
Israel will not have their salvation until they get their Kingdom on earth – at which time they will be “born again.”
They have been forgiven, but they are not yet saved – why? Because salvation and forgiveness are not the same thing.
Listener: How can you stand in forgiveness if you will not admit your need?
TTR: Here is where another separation needs to be made: Being forgiven and “standing in forgiveness” are two different things. One can be forgiven and yet not stand in it.
Here’s a scenario: Someone wrongs me. I choose to forgive them. They do not accept my forgiveness. Does the fact that they didn’t accept it mean that I didn’t really forgive them? No. The validity of my forgiveness doesn’t rest in whether or not the other person accepts it (or stands in it.) They are still forgiven whether they believe it or not. They are still forgiven whether they accept it (stand in it) or not.
I think that perhaps our inability to believe that God forgave the world without the world asking for it is due to our own humanistic thinking at times. It’s hard for most people to forgive someone, especially if they don’t believe that someone deserves forgiveness. It’s also hard for us to forgive someone if they don’t tell us they are sorry first.
God doesn’t think like us. But He wants us to think like Him. (1 Corinthians 2:6)
We didn’t earn God’s forgiveness – but He gave it anyway. That’s GRACE.
When we BELIEVE what God DID for us (the finished crosswork of Christ) – we are justified, made righteous, sanctified, and sealed unto the day of redemption. That’s the RICHES of His GRACE. Only those who are IN the BODY of Christ get the RICHES of grace.
GraceRightlyAppliedChangesEverything
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