Teaching our listeners to rightly divide the Word of Truth, making the Bible easier to understand.
This is Truth Time Radio.
You have a time or a moment, I think the last time we had a conversation on forgiveness of sins and reconciliation.
For some reason I see this continues to be an issue of confusion and people are not seeing it because I don't know why we still continue to force that Jesus would die on the cross 2,000 years ago when He was with God.
We were not there.
We were not in the equation.
The Word of God says when Christ was in God and He died on the cross, He bore our sins at the cross, He paid the penalty of our sins, He took what we, that which we, deserved in order to bring us back into that relationship that was lost when sin entered through Adam.
We had lost that relationship because God does not relate with sin.
So there was a war, there was a separate between us and God due to sin, so He took care of that at the cross.
I am not getting it why we are thinking that, okay, when He did that at the cross, when He bore our sins, He paid the penalty of sin, He still held that until I hear the gospel and believe in order for Him to forgive me when He had already forgiven me at the cross.
So, I believe this, that when Jesus and God and the Spirit by themselves forgave that
sin at the cross, when it was put on Jesus Christ, when it was judged, my sin was forgiven.
Now, how do I get saved?
How do I get the righteousness, imputed righteousness that is when I believe that which God did, that which Jesus did at the cross, then if I hear that message and I believe in that which was completed, that which was done, is when I am saved.
I am imputed righteousness.
I am at one with God.
I am at peace with God.
I am saved.
That is the point of salvation.
So the people that try to merge this understanding to suggest that when we say all sin was forgivenat the cross, we are suggesting that everybody was saved at the cross.
I don't know how that implication is inserted there.
The forgiveness of sin has nothing to do with the salvation of a person.
The salvation of a person has to do with the believing in the finished work of the cross.
And because what qualifies a person to go to heaven is not really a sin or not sin,
because even when we believe, we still have sin members in our bodies anyway.
It is the imputed righteousness which we believe at the point of, which we receive rather, at the point of belief.
So God does not see our sin anymore because he sees Christ through us, through the imputed righteousness, which is not ours.
It is of Christ, even though we still have sin members in our bodies.
So I just wanted to, I don't know, to speak that which I believe and I do not see why
even us, the people that rightly divide, still kind of try to even add into the confusion to the non-believers that we are wrong in saying that Jesus forgave the sins so that he can bring back this relationship that we did not have, that we can have, now we can go to Christ, really, so that wall that separated us is removed so that then we can believe and then be saved.
I don't know.
That's what I wanted to say, Brother Trey, I don't know if it makes sense.
Yes, it makes perfect sense.
Yes, yes.
So, it is almost suggesting that Jesus did that and held it, ransom, until you believe then I'm going to forgive you.
It does not make sense.
It doesn't make sense, but they don't see that.
They're blind to that.
They do not see it.
And let me go even further because this is serious business.
If anyone believes that God needs their belief before he can forgive their sins, I question their salvation.
How could I not?
How could I not question someone's salvation who thinks that their belief is going to make what Christ already did acceptable?
Now it's acceptable because I, ooh, look at me, because I believe now that goes through.
It's like it didn't happen, it wasn't fully completed until I did something.
That's adding to the gospel, that's adding to the cross, that's adding to the finished accomplishment of my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, who doesn't need my belief for his accomplishments.
He has accomplished it, and as you perfectly said, my believing it is salvation.
It's not forgiveness, it's salvation.
I believe what you accomplished, which has given me no credit at all.
I just believe it, and I'm saved because I believe what you did.
Amen.
As if my unbelief will make what was done at the cross void.
Right.
That gives you a heck of a lot of power, huh?
Yeah.
That gives you power over the blood.
Yeah.
I don't get it.
I don't get it.
Yeah.
One pulled, I forgot the verse, but I think it was in a Roman Bible, I think it's talking where just because forgiveness is mentioned in line of, it has in Christ and then it talks about forgiveness.
So it says, oh, you see, you're only forgiven when you are in Christ.
Oh, that's been going around for a long time.
You can't go and find a scripture or scriptures, let's use the plurality here.
You can't go find scriptures that say you're forgiven in Christ and then say that's the only place you can be forgiven.
That's just a statement of fact.
That's a declaration.
Yes, you're forgiven in Christ.
You're forgiven if you're not in Christ.
So why would I not be forgiven in Christ?
That doesn't do anything to this.
It's another feeble attempt.
Yes, I'm forgiven.
Those in Christ are forgiven.
And when Paul's talking to these people that are in Christ, he's just telling them a bunch of benefits that they have in Christ.
But he also tells the world the benefit they have when they're not even in Christ.
And you can read it.
It's in plain English.
Just get all of the prejudice out of your mind.
Look at it real clear and just read it and let it say what it says, where it says it
to whom it says it to.
And he's talking to those in Christ and he's talking about the world.
Those of the world and they are not having their sins imputed to them during this dispensation of grace.
It is so plain and it's a beautiful grace message and it's one that I love to share
with people more than this half gospel, this half truth that these people are sharing with them, which is, you can get forgiven as if it's something that can happen in the future.
You can get forgiven once you believe.
That's garbage.
I'm going to tell them the real good news because I'm a minister of reconciliation.
I'm an ambassador for Christ.
And in order to live up to that, I'm going to just speak it as it plainly says it on
the page.
Amen.
Amen.
I enjoyed this conversation, brother.
You would think it would be obvious to people that Christ on his blood-stained cross cleared the world's sin debt, but he did not save the world.
He did not save the world.
He cleared away their sin debt so that now he can deal with them about their salvation.
That's not hard.
That's easy enough for a child to understand.
And it's sad that people, what they've done, some of these people who claim they've come to understand grace, they've drug their denominational belief system with them.
Yes.
It is sad because we know, even with the old program of the nation of Israel, we know what saved is faith.
They had the faith in the instructions, even before the cross, in the instructions that God gave them, and their faith on that is what saved them, just as for us, our salvation is the faith of the complete work of the cross.
It is not anything to do with the sin.
Sin is not in the equation.
Their faith was based on believing in Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the Messiah,
right?
Right.
Our belief, our salvation is in the belief of the finished cross work, right?
Yes.
I do not see in any of the two programs sin being a problem in the way of salvation.
I don't know if I made sense.
For the Jews, it was faith alone, just like it is for us.
It was different information, it's a different gospel, different good news, but it was faith alone.
Now, if they lived an hour, or two hours, or twenty-four hours, then they were expected to put works with their faith to stay saved, to keep their salvation, to maintain it, to show it, but no, initially it's faith alone.
Yes, yes, and I want to believe for them their faith had to be accompanied by the works, because even during that time, God was dealing with a program that was dealing with the flesh, and they had to believe by sight.
That is why they had to demonstrate their faith.
They had to show when we, we work by faith, our work only is a product of our belief.
That's right.
It's not a requirement, right?
That's right.
Yes.
My point was, I was trying to draw there, was either program, sin is not in the way
of someone's salvation, then why are we pushing that sin now to be in the way of a salvation of the body of Christ?
It sounds self-righteous to me.
Yes.
It sounds like a self-righteous platform to be operating from, and I don't want any part of it.
You see, Gloria, this is actually a new twist.
This is a new spin that people are now saying, I never heard anything like this when I came to understand the gospel of the grace of God.
I never heard anything about, well, you know, once you believe, once you believe, God, He'll then at that time forgive you of your sin.
Nope, never heard of it.
That's not even what the gospel, that's not even what 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 says.
So this is a new spin you've got to believe to get your sins forgiven.
That's a new spin, and it's equivalent to saying, Christ died for your sins, and when
you believe that, Christ died for your sins.
Think about how ignorant that sounds.
Christ died for your sins, and when you believe that, Christ died for your sins.
Yes.
Yes.
To me, this, I call this a policy of evil.
Enemy from the beginning has been attacking the word of God.
Now he's successfully, successfully attacking it, even in the right dividing, even in the communities that really understand the message or claim to understand the message of the grace.
That's right.
So now you're bringing this controversy that, no, this is just a policy of evil.
It's a policy of evil, and guess what?
It's ironic that some people who say that, they use that term, Satan's policy of evil, and they actually believe that you have to believe first as a precursor to getting your sins forgiven, the very ones who says policy of evil.
So you've got to watch it.
You've got to be real careful.
You've got to be real investigative when you're listening or reading an article.
You have to really be on point here and have your I's dotted and your T's crossed, because we are to be discerning.
You know, in 1 Timothy chapter 4, there, Paul specifies in verse 10, he specifies whom Christ died for.
He says, quote, All men," he says, therefore, we both labor and suffer reproach because we trust in the living God who is the savior of all men, especially of those that believe.
Paul is saying the living God is the savior of all men, but you've got to believe.
You see, that's...
Can you give me again that verse?
I'm sorry.
Yes.
Can you give me that verse again?
It's 1 Timothy chapter 4, verse 10.
When talking about salvation, my point is, Paul is saying he's the savior of all men.
He went to the cross and died for all men, especially of those that believe.
That's salvation.
You see, salvation requires belief.
Your sins forgiven, that does not require you believing it.
That requires the living God, who is the savior of all men, going to the cross and
shedding His blood.
It's right there in front of our faces.
All we have to do is believe it.
And again, I think it's those who struggle with their past, they are struggling with
totally escaping and putting away their past denominational teaching.
Listen, I've had people who call in, multiple people who have called and written about this very topic, and they will say, they'll say, well, that sounds like what my denomination taught.
You see, they don't even expect a grace believer to say that.
They're like, well, that's what I was taught in the Baptist church, that once you believe, you get your sins forgiven.
The whole grace message is centered around what Christ has already done and not what
He can do after you believe it.
The only thing that will happen after you believe what He's already done is you'll be
saved.
Amen.
Amen.
Amen.
You are not in the question, just as you are not in the question when it's been answered through Adam, you are not in the question when God decided to send His Son to forgive that sin.
There you go.
This is why Truth Time Radio has been continuous in our teaching that forgiveness and salvation are not the same.
They're spelled different.
They are different.
There is a correlation, but they are not the same.
They have two different calendar dates.
They take place at different times.
Those who deny Him were also purchased by the blood.
They're not saved.
That means that God accepted the blood payment for even the sins of those who deny Him.
Amen.
You know, one pastor argued, one very, very famous, rightly dividing pastor, argued that statement that you just said, saying, well, paying for sin does not mean forgiving.
Well he has a real problem.
He has a problem, and maybe he never had a loan that was paid off.
I'm not really sure if you live a while and do a couple of things, you might figure this thing out.
But anyway, you cannot, I mean, just call your bank after you've paid a loan off or
after someone paid it for you, and you ask them, are you still holding that against me or is that loan forgiven?
Even in accounting, bankers use the very word forgiven to mean paid for.
So this isn't hard.
This is real simple.
They make it hard because they have an agenda.
And their agenda is built from the platform, as I said earlier, they're dragging in part of their old denomination that they came from.
It's like if you went into a building with them and you're sitting on a pew, let's say you go to church, you're sitting on a pew, and you look over and there they are.
And you see a couple of luggage bags right there by the pew, right there by them.
They came in and they drug some with them.
See, you and I, we left ours where they belong because we were fed up with all that garbage, and we knew that the Apostle Paul was saying something different than the Baptist church, saying something different than the assemblies of God, and we didn't bring any of that with us.
We knew better.
Yes, yes.
But you have to understand that there's others who just do not, you just have to keep on praying.
Keep praying for them.
Maybe a light will come on.
And you know, I'm hoping that some of these, like I said, when I first heard the gospel of the grace of God and was saved, I didn't hear about this new twist that says you've got to believe before you get your sins forgiven.
So my hope is a lot of other people did not hear that either, and they got saved.
Because if you put that in front of your salvation, if you want to tell me that you think you must believe before your sins are forgiven, I'm going to tell you, you're not saved according to that testimony.
I'm not God, I don't know who's saved and who isn't, but I do know by the words that
just came out of your mouth, you do not sound like a saved person, and I do not think anyone will be in heaven thinking their belief got their sins forgiven.
So it's a serious thing we're talking about here.
And again, for some, they were saved, and then they got confused somewhere along the
way, and they're still saved.
So that's not my point.
You can't lose your salvation.
So they're saved, but what about people who think this from the very beginning?
They think, oh, okay, so I have to believe, and once I believe the gospel, then at that moment Christ will forgive me of my sins.
That doesn't make sense.
That is them in their selfianity, thinking that their belief, not His blood, but their belief had the power to forgive their sins.
At that moment, they believed, and not the moment that He shed His blood.
Amen.
Thank you, Brother Trey.
Thank you so much.
Brother Trey, do you have a teaching on anything touching on the will of God, God's will in the sense that, oh, God willing, I will do this and that, or such and such died because, well, it was God's plan, it's God's will.
That's another subject that's very, very controversial.
Right.
I've got plenty of teachings.
I don't say it necessarily just how you said it, but what it is, that's Calvinism, and that's where they're getting this.
God is all up in your circumstances and everything that's happening, but I'll try
to find a couple of those broadcasts and send that to you, and I maybe even will do one specifically on what you're talking about.
Thank you.
That one, I have to admit, I'm not grounded on it, comfortable enough to explain to someone.
I see.
But someone very close to me that struggles with that for whatever reason.
When death happens, when he loses a job, when someone gets sick, then those talks come of God's will.
That's Calvinism.
It's got it all over it.
It's one of the most despicable and disgusting doctrines ever been because there are going to be people that have no faith at all, never believed in God, or believed to a certain extent and was heading in the right direction, and let one of these Calvinist preachers get them on the track that God's in your circumstances, and every time something happens, good orbad, and then what happens to that person, they lose their faith altogether without even ever coming to Paul's gospel, never got saved, and I'll do my best to teach on that, Gloria.
It is very, very dangerous.
This thinking is very, very dangerous because I experienced that, if I could share a little
experience that I went through.
I tell you what, I would love to.
I have someone coming into my office in about eight minutes, but you know what?
I would love to do that.
Do not forget that, and call me back in a few days.
Okay.
Okay, I will.
2 Timothy 2:15, study and rightly divide the word of truth makes all the difference.
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