March 17, 2020
Listener: The biggest problem with the way you are interpreting Matthew 5:17 is that you are effectively promoting lawlessness. Did you read the next two verses, 18 and 19? Fulfill has never meant to do away with as you are implying.
TTR: I already answered this in the previous reply. In order for us to have any sort of profitable dialogue, I ask that you please pay closer attention.
But I'll try again. "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."
Fulfilled - to do what is required according to a promise or a contract. To succeed in doing, providing or achieving something.
Dave, this was accomplished by Jesus Christ almost two thousand years ago. He succeeded in doing what was required of him - he "fulfilled" the law.
Listener: Matthew 5:19 "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."
TTR: Aren't you glad this was written to "the lost sheep of the house of Israel" and not you? Aren't you glad that you are on the other side of the cross? I have broken more than one, and if your intellectually honest with yourself, so have you. And Jesus clearly said that if even "ONE of these LEAST" commandments was broken, the offender would be called "the least" in their (Israel's) EARTHLY kingdom.
Listener: Fulfill means to fully preach, make complete, perform. Have you forgotten what John 7:16 says?
TTR: No sir. Nor have I forgotten to WHOM John wrote. "And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision." (Galatians 2:9)
Do you believe what you just read?
- If so, you believe that the "Great Commission" was shut down as you just read, correct?
- If so, you believe that what Paul wrote was for the gentile nations as you just read, correct??
- If so, you believe that what John wrote was for the "circumcision" as you just read correct???
Listener: Yeshua's teachings are not His own, but the One who sent Him. Furthermore, Deuteronomy 4:2 and 12:32 clearly and explicitly state you do not add to or diminish from the Creator's words.
TTR: I challenge you to prove where I "diminish from the Creator's words." Please do not waste my time with your gross exaggerations. If you only wish to build straw man arguments so you can march by and knock them down, you should find someone who'll allow you to do so. Sorry, that doesn't work on me. You continue to boast in how you keep the commandments, yet you repeatedly break the one that tells you to rightly divide the word of truth. (2 Timothy 2:15)
Listener: Now go back to Matthew 5:17-19 and you will see what fulfill means. People such as yourself think you have it all figured out.
TTR: "all figured out"? Not a chance. But what I do know is I am commanded to study the word of truth rightly divided instead of mixing it together. What I do know is I am commanded to consider what Paul says if I want the Lord to give me understanding. (2 Timothy 2:7) So no sir I do not have it all figured out but I'm sure not as confused as I used to be.
Listener: When you say even one commandment from the Creator is no longer relevant, you are setting yourself up to be the recipient of the words in Matthew 7:23.
TTR: There you go lying to yourself again. Dave, you do not keep the law! There are 613 points of law. Can you honestly say you keep all 613? I submit that you don't even keep the 10 commandments. So why not stop with the absurdness and get real for a change. Are you a professing Christian or a Jew? - Cant be both. Since you insist on mixing works with grace, (which is a direct violation of scripture, Romans 11:6) and since you think your a Jew and ALSO a member of the body of Christ, (which is an impossibility) let me ask you this: What did you do this past Saturday? (Exodus 20:10) That is a part of your Torah, is it not? Face it, I could take you through the Torah and you wouldn't last 2 minutes before we would uncover all sorts of violations committed on your part, including the mixed fabrics your wearing right now. Your a lawbreaker in denial. And don't forget what James said: For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. (James 2:10) Have you ever lied? Then your a murderer. Have you ever defiled the Sabbath day? Then your an adulterer. So how is Israel's law working for you? You fellows who claim to keep the law are a real hoot. The only law you keep is your watered down VERSION of it.
Listener: Let's look at what Yeshua said in Matthew 7:21-23: 21 Not every one that says to me, 'Master, Master' shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, 'Master, Master, haven't we prophesied in your name? And in your name have cast out devils? And in your name done many wonderful works?' 23 And then will I profess to them, 'I never knew you: depart from me, you that work lawlessness.' The Greek word that lawlessness represents is G458 anomia, the same word the definition of sin represents in 1 John 3:4, which is transgression of the Torah (to be clear, I am referring to the words of the Creator within Genesis through Deuteronomy). When Paul illustrated how the Torah is a schoolmaster and that we are no longer under a schoolmaster, he was never implying the information within the Torah has become null and void. Rather, Paul was illustrating how when the Messiah came, we would know how to follow Him because He fully preached, made complete and performed the Torah.
TTR: Every verse you cited was for those who were under the law. Now lets look at what was written to us. "For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but bunder grace." (Romans 6:14).
"For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:" (Galatians 3:10-13).
What part of this do you disagree with?
Listener: How can you say you are a follower of the Messiah when, according to the way you interpret the New Testament, you can't say that you match 1 John 2:6? In other words, you don't walk as Yeshua walked by your own words.
TTR: "you don't walk as Yeshua walked"? Seriously? You say that as if YOU-DO. By your own words you are starting to bear the resemblance of a Pharisee.
Well I admit that I do NOT walk as Jesus walked. But I do attempt to follow Paul as he followed Christ. 1 Corinthians 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ. So yes I try to follow Christ, but I do it how the Lord instructed me to - by following the apostle Paul.
Listener: The real problem is that by your own words, you have never converted. You were introduced to a theology that is what Paul warned against, which is another gospel.
TTR: No sir. The "another gospel" Paul warned of is any other gospel other than his "my gospel". (Romans 2:16; 16:25; 2 Timothy 2:8) There is more than one gospel in the bible, and what Paul is saying is to not fall for any other gospel other than the one he preached.
Compare Paul *a minister of the uncircumcised* with John *a minister of the circumcised*. Paul - "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." (Galatians 1:8)
John - "And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth,..." (Revelation 14:6)
Will the angel preach "another gospel"? Yes. Will the angel be cursed for doing what God tells him to do? No. Why not? Because that angel will preach "another gospel" after the church the body of Christ has been caught away. The angel will preach his "everlasting gospel" at the appropriate time. Only if the angel were to preach his gospel (NOW) at the wrong time would he be accursed. God is a God of order and everything has its God ordained appointed time.
Listener: Either you promote the Messiah as a liar and a transgressor because of the theological claim that He did away with the Torah, making Him ineligible to redeem man through His death, which you are in effect bear false witness against Him, or you make yourself a liar when you claim you follow Him since you do not walk as He walked.
TTR: You really should examine yourself concerning your twisting of words. To have a profitable dialogue I ask that you to stay on point and only deal with the facts. In not one of our email exchanges have I said or even implied that "He did away with the Torah". Those are your words all by yourself my friend.
Listener: I don't say this to insult or offend you, but to hopefully make you see that the theology you follow is really not Scriptural.
TTR: David, you're not offending me. I have tough skin and am built for this. All I ask is that you give a more careful reading to my responses without attempting to make me say something I did not. Perhaps you are doing this unaware but you are doing it nonetheless. I'm simply giving you scriptural responses that apply to this current dispensation that we are living in. Its called "rightly dividing the word of truth". I do not hop scotch all over the bible, stringing along and cherry-picking certain verses to build a theology.
Now, instead of reading this and quickly knee-jerking with an emotional reply, I kindly ask that you crack open the word of God and do a bit more studying before getting back to me.
Thank you sir.
GraceRightlyAppliedChangesEverything
Add comment
Comments